FVEAA Forums
Member EV Projects => Member Vehicles => Topic started by: scott.taylor on February 17, 2008, 05:00:13 AM
-
I have seen members ask about how to get started in electric vehicles, so I thought I would pass along the approach I have taken.
I currently don't have space to convert a car, and production electric cars with reasonable performance and price still seem to be something for the future. But I found a vehicle that I feel can supplement my transportation needs.
I live about 5 miles from work, and often ride my bicycle on good days, but when temperatures get below about 60 degrees or there is a threat of ran, I usually get behind the wheel of my car. I had almost purchased an EVT 4000e scooter, but because I have a short section of road on Butterfield I need to travel, and didn't feel I would be comfortable with its 30 mph top speed.
EVT was advertising a new model, the Z-20, with a bigger motor that they claimed would do 45 mph, and I decided to get myself on the waiting list. Well, almost 2 1/2 years later, it finally arrived at my doorstep.
While the weather has kept me from really putting this bike to the test, I have had it up to about 40 mph and it still had some room left to go faster. It is a very smooth and stable ride and is a real "gas" (pardon the expression) to ride! It has a 60 volt system with a 2500 watt brushless hub motor. For what I got, I felt the $2400 price tag (cycle and shipping) was well worth it.
I had no trouble registering the bike in Illinois, as it came with all the paperwork you would expect with a new vehicle (Certificate of Origin, Odometer statement, and invoice). Of course, the "how many CC's" question was still tough to get past, but I was issued a temporary plate and told I would be issued electric "EL" plates for the motorcycle. Since all electric paperwork needs to go to Springfield, we will see if they deliver. I was originally concerned about how it would be classified, but having a top speed under 45 mph, put me in the moped category, which is what I wanted (no motorcycle license needed).
I plan to keep the motorcycle charged using an off-grid solar power system I have put together. I figured I would need about 100 amp-hours of power per day, to keep the bike running totally by the sun. So, I have a system with some reserve, that should be able to deliver around 200 amp-hours on a good day. So far, I have peaked at about 70 amp-hours, but the sun is still below the tree line, so this time of year, I rarely have full sun hitting the panels.
If anyone is interested in the progress of my project, I'll try to keep you up to date.
Scott Taylor
-
Thanks for sharing! I have eyed the Z-20 myself. Let us know how the solar powering works out!
Eddie
-
Nice ride Scott! i'll be interested in hearing the results of your EL plate registration. Also, go ahead and modify your first post to attach a picture (since your uploading question lead me to find the problem - i had not changed the Uploads directory path since we moved to a new hosting company - THANKS!).
-
Scott Taylor's Electric Scooter added to Member Vehicles! Check it out at:
scotttaylor.fveaa.org (http://scotttaylor.fveaa.org)
-
with a 60 volt pack it should really get up and GO. What do they say the range should be?
-
For those who are interested in not going over 20 mph (bicycle path legal) with a 40 mile range, check out our Town & Country Cruiser.
http://estore.websitepros.com/1866691/Detail.bok?no=4
I have a demonstrator for those who are interested.
Email me for our special price for FVEAA members.
talleyrand3@comast.net.
Tracy Talley
TMT E-MOTION
Homer Glen, Illinois
www.tmtemotion.com
-
To answer the range questions, it is advertised to go 30-45 miles on a charge. But seems to me, I found the fine print somewhere, that said it was based on 2.5 mph on a level surface, no wind...you get the idea.
As soon as I get some real world data, I'll post the information. I expect to be riding in the 25-35 mph range, and will have a 10 mile round trip commute. The practical range to be closer to 15-20 miles. So far, I haven't ridden it more than about three miles at a time. That has dropped the power gauge a couple of notches depending on how many starts and stops I'm doing and how fast I'm pushing it.
The performance is very good. It has no chance against a Harley, but easily keeps up with traffic.
Scott...
-
To answer the range questions, it is advertised to go 30-45 miles on a charge. But seems to me, I found the fine print somewhere, that said it was based on 2.5 mph on a level surface, no wind...you get the idea.
Do you mean 2 point 5 (2 and one half), not twentyfive mph ?
-
We are expecting the Liberty E-Cycle to arrive next month.
It will have a 3500 watt brushless motor with 60volt 40 amp LiFeP04 batteries.
Top speed over 60 mph with a range of 50 to 90 miles.
It will sell for about half of what the Vectrix e scooter sells for.
If anyone is interested in literature, just email me, for some reason I can't post it here.
Tracy
TMT E-MOTION
Homer Glen, Illinois
www.tmtemotion.com
talleyrand3@comcast.net
-
I couldn't find it the other day, but the statement below is from the Z-20 specification sheet. I'm glad you asked because I had thought the test speed was 2.0 MPH but now I see they didn't state the speed, it was the frontal wind. Of course, now I'm wondering if the winds were 2.0 MPH or if they were moving 2.0 MPH faster than their tail wind!
"Range and Speed have been tested with a 160 pound (73 kilogram) driver. Ideal conditions met; flat paved road; 2.0 MPH (3.2 KPH) frontal wind; 78 deg F (25.5 deg C) temperature; new fully charged batteries. MUltiple test results average resulted in plus or minus tolerance of 6%."
Scott...
-
Tracey - perhaps when the weather is better you will bring your bike(s) to a monthly meeting?
-
>>>Tracey - perhaps when the weather is better you will bring your bike(s) to a monthly meeting?<<<
Absolutely Terry.
I anticipate being able to make more meetings now and when I do, I'll have at least 5 models with me for folks to get a feel of and ride if they would like.
Weather is definitely a factor though when it is this brutal.
Tracy
TMT E-MOTION
Homer Glen, Illinois
www.tmtemotion.com
-
Sounds like there is a lot if interest in the E-Motion motorcycle.
Perhaps that part of the string could be continued in the Classified or EV News sections.
Scott...
-
>>>Perhaps that part of the string could be continued in the Classified or EV News sections.<<<
Good idea Scott.
I'll see if I can get that literature into the news section.
Probably not the classifieds until the bike is actually here.
Thanks.
Tracy
TMT E-MOTION
Homer Glen, Illinois
wwwtmtemotion.com
-
With the sunny weather and above freezing temperatures, I got a chance to take the cycle for a spin and get a better idea of range and performance.
The temperature was around 35 degrees as I rode the cycle around town and to the store. Lots of stop and go, getting up to 30-40 mph on the roads. The cycle easily keeps up with traffic on the local streets. The hydraulic disk brakes are very effective and smooth. I ran the bike almost 16 miles until the battery meter began flashing red as it approached the last two segments on the meter. Even with the batteries down to this level, performance was still very good and could easily get to and maintain 30 mph or more.
Later, I began charging the bike from my stored solar power and monitored the power usage using a Kill-O-Watt power meter. I have a total of 4 12v batteries in two banks that are charged by the solar panels. The batteries were almost fully charged when I began charging the cycle. I got about 750 watts-hours out of one bank and about 650 watts-hours out of the other, but it took a total of 1880 watt-hours to fully recharge the cycle. One thing I have learned is when you are pulling power out at high rates (40 amps in this case), the batteries do not provide anywhere near their rated capacity. So, looks like I would need to add additional batteries to my solar pack to store enough for a full recharge. The cycles charger pulls about 430 watts initially and tapers down as the batteries near fully charged.
I figure this translates to about 150 amp-hours for a full charge and so far my solar system has only given me 80 amp-hours on a sunny day. I've noticed the peak solar current has dropped a bit as the temperatures have warmed up, so I suspect I am losing some power through undersized wiring from the panels. One potential place to tweak a little more power out of the sun.
So far, this has been a fun way to get some experience with solar and electric power. I'm sure the cycles range will improve as the temperatures warm and learning to be easier on the start ups (of course the quick starts are more fun). One of my battery banks is rated for 210 amp-hours and was surprised I could only use about one-third of that capacity. (Die Hard deep cycle marine batteries). I think I can get more out of them by giving them a rest while recharging the cycle.
That's it for now. If anyone has any suggestions or comments, I'd be glad to hear them!
Scott...
-
Well, I rode the scooter to work both Thursday and Friday. Morning temperature was 34 on Thursday and 28 on Friday. Evening temps were about 52 both days. After the 10 mile round trip, the power meter was reading between 1/2 and 3/4 or about 35% depleted.
Both days I was able to fully recharge the cycle with my stored solar power. I had added two additional 105 amp-hr batteries to my primary pack for a total of 4. This has reduced the current drain per battery and improved the efficiency (charger draws a peak 45 amps while recharging).
I also have a two battery secondary pack that I have been using to run my computer and television. This gives me almost 600 amp-hours of total backup storage. I have a SunSaver Duo solar charge controller which can keep the two separate battery packs charged and diaplays all the data I need to help fine tune my setup.
I measured the amount of power to recharge the scooter on Friday at 1050 watt-hrs. This is 87.5 amp-hrs assuming a 12v average voltage. But I collected 96 amp-hrs from the sun on Friday despite being partly cloudy a good part of the day!! So, I have proved that, for my 10 mile round trip anyway, I can power my scooter by the sun!! :-D
So, now I just need to address my undersized wiring from the panels and wait for the sun to get a bit higher in the sky, and I am confident I can acheive my estimated 150 amp-hrs per day or more.
WOOHOO!!
Scott...
-
Your scooter adventure would interest a large audience! You need to compile data from both your driving the scooter and power used as well as your solar system data and submit an article to the "Homepower" magazine. They are always looking for submissions and it would be cool to see some FVEAA gathering pictures with your ride as the center piece!!!
-
Thanks for the suggestion, it sounds like a good idea. Perhaps the chapter might be interested in a presentation, as well.
I have been collecting data and it will be interesting to see where performance peaks out. The warm weather has definitely improved the range. I just put 8 miles on it a little while ago. Put the charger on when I got home, but it still considered the batteries full and went right to trickle. I haven't taken it over about 18 miles so far. When the weather is warm and I'm not pushing the limit on the speed (40-45 mph), I'm approaching 1/2 on the power meter at 18 miles [but I believe the second half will go faster :) ]. So far, average power use is about 114 watt-hours/mile.
I also added some more copper to the run from the solar panels to the charge controller, today. It is about 65 feet and I was using 12 gauge wire. Since the panels can put out 25 amps, I suspect I was losing a significant amount of power, but will need some numbers to prove it. I have put another 10 gauge wire in parallel. I'm probably still undersized, but getting closer.
So far, I've ridden about 130 miles all totally powered by the sun!!
Thanks for the interest.
Scott...
-
Definitely keep us updated. really cool!
-
It has been a while since I posted anything, so I thought I'd pass along an update.
In short, the solar output is up, but the scooter is down!
So far I have put about 330 miles on the scooter and it has been great transportation. There have been a few issues with quality that I'm sure they will address with later releases. But one thing that seems to be happening to almost all of the first production scooters, is failure of the motor controllers. EVT is being very good about sending out "improved" replacements controllers, but I haven't gotten mine yet.
On the "bright" side, my solar panels are performing better than expected. The maximum power output of each panel is supposed to be 4.9 amps, but I have peaked out at about 26 amps from 5 panels connected in parallel. I originally had the panels mounted on my north fence facing south at a 45 degree angle. But once the leaves came out and the sun moved up, the panels were in the shade most of the day.
I moved them to my deck and now have them facing directly up. So they are now in the sun almost all day. In addition, because the panels are facing up, I am still getting direct sunlight even when the sun is on the north side of due east or west.
I have exceeded 120 amp-hours per day and could probably get close to 150 amp-hours on a good day, but unfortunately, I am not actually using that much power every day, so the excess gets wasted. I may throw another battery or two in the primary bank to bring it up to 525 or 630 amp-hours of capacity to improve efficiency, and I need to start putting some solar outlets around the house to make better use of the excess (I currently run 1 TV and my PC and some lighting from the batteries. This is a solar powered message!)
I'm am always open to suggestions and would be happy to answer any questions.
Scott...
-
A solar canopy for your deck-shade for you with power production. Sharp makes 2 sided solar panels that get about 30% more power than one sided panels and still let light to pass thru to the other side. BTW the huge energy show is this weekend up in Custer, WI.. www.the-mrea.org